For real, they are. I went to ballparks.com, and the Lightning had good attendance their first year in Tampa, but it went down ever since until this year when it picked up some. Even though the owner of the Lightning does own the arena where they play, I just don't think hockey will do well down there. No snow for starters, plus more people in Tampa prefer baseball and football to hockey. BTW, on the D-Rays, I think w/ a change in ownership and a change in leagues, they'll do better. Plus remember the Braves attendance used to stink pretty bad too, until '91 when they got the NL pennant.

Oregon rocks

You know, I know absolutely nothing about the NHL, so I should probably keep my big mouth shut.

But as far as the Rays are concerned, I see little hope for them.

Surely you aren't comparing the Devil Rays to the Braves? The Braves had a long history of great fan support in Milwaukee and Atlanta. They were in a slump (albeit a terrible one) throughout much of the 80s. Unlike the Rays, the Braves had an owner that was content to stay put and knew how to build them back up, and a devoted if shrinking fan base that was willing to see them through the rough times. Tampa Bay has struggled from the very start, on and off the field. Fan support is minimal at best, and that has hurt them in the pocketbook.

Other new teams have struggled. But not like this. However, that's not the reason I think the Rays will move.

Tropicna Field is a dinosaur. It is a throwback to an era of stadium design that baseball dearly wants to forget. It lacks everything that a modern baseball stadium needs to draw support, and has all the extra mall garbage that true baseball fans hate (c'mon. A rock climbing wall?!) But it's barely a decade old, and so no relief is in sight. That's St. Pete's mistake. MLB told them not to build the darn thing, they did it anyway and now they're stuck with it. I know a couple of Rays fans down in that area, and their consensus is that nobody likes the Trop. They can change owners, they can change leagues (well, probably not, though it has been discussed it's as likely as contraction (see other thread)), but they can't leave that ugly building. And that's their problem. A pretty insurmountable one, it seems.

Well, the Rays can leave the Trop. But only if they move far away....

I hear ya on the park New Yorker. I'm so glad to see the days of the cookie cutter, astro-turf, multi-purpose stadium dwindling by the second.

By far and away, these so-called multipurpose stadiums were by far the worst architectual innovation since 50's architecture (and boy, did it ever stink!!). What's so bad about them is that they must be big enough to accommodate baseball and football, and the end result is there are a lot of seats that are waaaay over in another zip code!!! I was glad to see the Astros leaving the Astrodome and the Pirates leaving Three Rivers. The only relatively "good" multipurpose stadium was Atlanta-Fulton County stadium. It used to be used by both the Braves and the Falcons, until the Braves started complaining about the Falcons tearing up their field. The Georgia Dome was built for the Falcons, and the Braves had Atlanta-Fulton County all to themselves. Fans really packed that place out in the '90s, and I was sad to see it go. But that stadium is the rare exception to the rule.
I guess the city of Tampa could sell the Trop to USF for their football games(USF=University of South Florida) and use that money to build a more modern stadium. I still think the DRays will stay in Tampa and they'll have better ballpark too. However, I do believe we'll have success in landing the Twins. Maybe we can get them to move over to the NL!!!

Oregon rocks

I don't know about Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium, but Milwaukee County Stadium hosted both for quite a while.

Of course, that was a baseball park that could occasionally host a football game. And it wasn't a great place to wtch a football game (or play one, either- both benches had to be on the same side of the field).

I would also like to echo your comments on the cookie cutters of the 1970s. Glad to see them all torn down.