A couple of questions here. Please bear with me, I'm not an accountant or financial expert, I can barely balance the checkbook...

1. Scott Rolen (for example purposes only) gets paid by the St. Louis Cardinals on what I assume is a fairly regular basis during the season. Does the state of Missouri (assuming they have an income tax) tax him on his entire salary at the end of the year or only on the portion of the salary he earns playing home games in St. Louis, and the occasional interleague game against Kansas City?

2. If he is taxed on all of it by Missouri, can Oregon legally tax him a second time on the income? I can see where if he only pays income tax on money earned playing home games, where Oregon could do that, but if he has to pay the full income tax, it would seem that Oregon couldn't double tax him.

3. Can a player structure his contract so that technically he gets paid nothing for games in Portland, but perhaps gets double pay for playing in Seattle (again, for example purposes only), so that he can avoid paying the tax in Oregon?

Again, I'm not up to speed on the $$$ side of things, but it seems that if one of the bases around which your stadium financing plan is built is taxing the players themselves, some creative accounting could easily come into play as well as some creative legal battles and then what happens?

Welcome to the forums!

I'm know that football players get a 'game check' I'm not sure if they are handed a check for the portion of their sallary after each game or what, but if a player gets suspended they loose that portion of thier sallary. I'd assume baseball is simmilar, thought I'm sure the pay period is more like 2 weeks.

I'd also guess that a player can't be taxed 2 times and that a player can't structure their sallary to play games in Portland for free while getting paid double in a state with no income tax.

--Steeplechase3k--
--Red Sox Fan--

Welcome BarnabyMoose!

These are some outstanding questions here, and I hope to see you here often.

Let me see if I can shed some light on this...

Technically, in Oregon if you are playing games within the state, you are employed within the state. Thus, using Scott Rolen as an example, Scott gets taxed here.

This isn't precedent. It's done in Baltimore and Cleveland as examples.

Gene Orza of the Players Union said that this current system would be expectable by design. If we had decided to create a specific tax just for the players, then they would have had issues and fought it.

Ask anyone that you may know that lives in Vancouver, WA and works in Oregon. They'll tell you that they have to pay Oregon State income taxes. Same rules would apply to the MLB players.

Hope this helps, and we hope to see you here often.

Maury Brown
Information Director
OBC


A man has to have goals- for a day, for a lifetime- that was mine, to have people say, "There goes Ted Williams, the greatest hitter who ever lived." - Ted Williams

Welcome BarnabyMoose!

Enjoy the boards post often and take heart in the fact your the first Alaska resident to post here!

Mark A. Miller
Researcher/Mod
OBC


P.S. Now we have the whole West Coast covered....All we need is Baja (both) and we covered the whole Western US, Canada, and Mexico...

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Anaheim Angels 2002 World Champions

quote:

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Originally posted by BarnabyMoose:

Again, I'm not up to speed on the $$$ side of things, but it seems that if one of the bases around which your stadium financing plan is built is taxing the players themselves, some creative accounting could easily come into play as well as some creative legal battles and then what happens?

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I have heard of legal challenges but personally I don't think they have a leg to stand on. Just like any other taxpayer, if you earned your wages in a particular state, then you have to abide by that state's tax laws.

I know that certain teams located in states without an income tax will try to lure players by informing them that their tax burden will decrease (since half the games are played at home, half will have no state income tax associated with the wages).

To me the question is, what happens if Oregon decides to mirror Washington's tax structure by enacting a sales tax and scrapping the income tax? I'm sure that the stadium bill will have safeguards for this but I am curious to hear what they are.

I think it is the responcibilty of the owner to pay back waht isn't covered by the income taxes from the players . . .

--Steeplechase3k--
--Red Sox Fan--

what happens if Oregon decides to mirror Washington's tax structure by enacting a sales tax and scrapping the income tax?

No....Up here the tax system is so screwed because of the sales tax they are talking of dropping it and starting an income tax...

Income tax...Charges by your net income...

Sales tax...All inclusive...

With a sales tax the poor pay exactly the same amount as Joe Millionaire...Which is sicking....Heck no...Keep the income tax! Don't bring in a sales tax..

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Anaheim Angels 2002 World Champions

quote:

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Originally posted by steeplechase3k:
I think it is the responcibilty of the owner to pay back waht isn't covered by the income taxes from the players . . .

--Steeplechase3k--
--Red Sox Fan--

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Yes, I realize that in a general sense the owner is supposedly responsible for any shortfalls, but what owner in their right mind would agree to this without having any safeguards in place? My guess would be that the owner would require that a portion of the sales tax be used to offset any losses from the reduced/eliminated income tax (Kind of like how the Seattle area (King County, I think) has a portion of their sales tax goes to Safeco).

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Originally posted by HaloHawk94:
_what happens if Oregon decides to mirror Washington's tax structure by enacting a sales tax and scrapping the income tax?_

No....Up here the tax system is so screwed because of the sales tax they are talking of dropping it and starting an income tax...

Income tax...Charges by your net income...

Sales tax...All inclusive...

With a sales tax the poor pay exactly the same amount as Joe Millionaire...Which is sicking....Heck no...Keep the income tax! Don't bring in a sales tax..

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Anaheim Angels 2002 World Champions

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I agree with you, Halo, but the loose cannons around here are thinking up all kinds of new revenue enhancement scenarios. Word on the street is that the income tax is too unstable as a source of revenue (as opposed to property and sales taxes).

quote:

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Originally posted by HaloHawk94:
With a sales tax the poor pay exactly the same amount as Joe Millionaire...Which is sicking....Heck no...Keep the income tax! Don't bring in a sales tax..

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I have disagree with you, gentlemen. The poor don't pay exactly the same amount as Joe Millionaire simply because they don't purchase as much as Joe Millionaire.

Yeah but if I want to buy a TV it costs me the in taxes as Joe Millionaire...

Sales Tax is regressive tax...

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Anaheim Angels 2002 World Champions

One reasoon Oregons income tax is so unstable as a income source is its dependence on corporate taxes so in hard times like these when corporate profits plummet so does Oregons income.

And since Oregon is dependent upon business taxing for a large portion of its revenue -- generally it's an unfavorable environment for business relocation or expansion (check how many Oregon co.'s are on the foturne 500 list? 1. And it's in Beaverton...)

Sales tax defers these business expenditures and lets companies concentrate upon what we really need....hiring people.

What's "regressive" is driving away new busines.

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Originally posted by MrSofty:
And since Oregon is dependent upon business taxing for a large portion of its revenue -- generally it's an unfavorable environment for business relocation or expansion (check how many Oregon co.'s are on the foturne 500 list? 1. And it's in Beaverton...)

Sales tax defers these business expenditures and lets companies concentrate upon what we really need....hiring people.

What's "regressive" is driving away new busines.

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I just did some quick research on the top corporate income tax rates by state... Oregon was only the 27th highest overall rate (in 2001), so I don't think that's the reason Oregon is in such a bind.

There are pros and cons to all types of state taxes... in my opinion, Oregon's economic woes have nothing to do with the tax structure. The state government's woes, on the other hand, are somewhat related to the tax structure... I know I will take some flak for this but I am just stating a fact, not making an argument. Oregon used to be more dependent on property taxes and those are less prone to fluctuation in comparison to income taxes.

The term regressive tax is an academic one used in ecnomics, it refers to any tax that generally takes a larger % of the total income from people in the lower half of the wealth spectrum as opposed to a progressive tax that takes a larger % from the wealthy half such as a typical income tax, there are also flat taxes that do neither. The term regessive tax is not an opinion just an academic description. As for Oregon being too dependent on corporate taxes and its inevitable up and down cycles we may well be in the middle of the pack of states in corporate tax levels I am just repeating what I have read in newspapers, heard on TV and been told by several econmic profs. in school, it may or may not be true but it seems to at least be a part of the puzzle about the economy here being even worse than most of the country, other factors are certainly our dependence on several industries that are all doing exceptionally poor right now such as high tech, timber, ag, tourism, etc.

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Originally posted by dean:
As for Oregon being too dependent on corporate taxes and its inevitable up and down cycles we may well be in the middle of the pack of states in corporate tax levels I am just repeating what I have read in newspapers, heard on TV and been told by several econmic profs. in school, it may or may not be true but it seems to at least be a part of the puzzle about the economy here being even worse than most of the country, other factors are certainly our dependence on several industries that are all doing exceptionally poor right now such as high tech, timber, ag, tourism, etc.

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hey dean, I just read your profile since it sounds like you are a finance whiz, and you and I have very similar backgrounds (my undergrad degree is in polic sci, post bac accounting, attended UO & PSU, I was an audit mgr for a CPA firm downtown, now I'm DOF for a physician group... no kids yet though, hopefully we will within a couple years.... anyway, I think that your point about Oregon's industries is right on the money and I hope that Oregon leaders can apply any lessons learned in their MLB quest to help attract more businesses here in diverse industries.

Areas such as manufacturing, finance, and health care have not suffered as bad as high tech & timber, but unfortunately we are underrepresented in those industries that have suffered less.

Yes diversification is the key to Oregon/Washington no longer being the first into recession and last out.