I'm an avid baseball and sports fan that would give anything, well almost anything to have a MLB franchise here. We all know that Potter is anti sports....at least if there is going to be any public money going towards it. He wants to focus on schools, supposedly. All of the potential candidates for relocation are inching closer to new ballparks and it looks as if expansion is our only option. From the posts and other information I have gathered on the internet it seems as if 2009 is the earliest we can even begin to speak of an expansion team but my question is where is the campaign leadership? If expansion is perhaps our only option, is there anyone here in the Metro area banging on the MLB office door saying we want a team here? If a group of people would start to put facts and figures in front of the commish and other officials about the validity of our market can we perhaps at least have a stadium site chosen and more funding at the ready when needed. It just seems to me that if we had a bit more of our act together besides SB5 and more leadership we would be a much more attractive market.

Expansion costs? Does anyone know of the potential price for an expansion team? Would the price be paid by ownership, city a combo of both? Just curious? Is a roof here in PDX a neccesity? I don't believe so revenue wise but as as far as attracting other events such as monster trucks, NCAA final four, major conventions, NCAA bowl game I would think a roof would be needed for further revenue generated around the ballpark year round and for the city, team and stadium ownership. All in all....I just would love to see a bit more leadership in this town regarding MLB and being ready when the expansion subject arises and perhaps put a bit of pressure on MLB by having our financing together, a park site picked and all of the other needed fixtures in the next couple years when the time comes and hopefully we can present ourselves as a can't miss market for MLB.

quote:

Originally posted by Al Davis:
I'm an avid baseball and sports fan that would give anything, well almost anything to have a MLB franchise here.

Me too, but I think that even if Paul Allen and/or Phil Knight were willing to scratch out a check for $1B+ to bring MLB into town, it wouldn't happen because MLB is not interested in us... yet.

quote:

We all know that Potter is anti sports....at least if there is going to be any public money going towards it. He wants to focus on schools, supposedly.

Here's a little story to give you an idea of how Potter feels about big time sports... he sat in the front row on opening night against the T'Wolves. It was a great game with a bunch of exciting young players who played their @sses off, and the Blazers won on a last second 3 by Juan Dixon. I made it a point to watch Potter (I was sitting across from him in a suite), and, other than the Dixon 3, I didn't see him clap AT ALL during THE ENTIRE GAME. He just sat there, arms folded, half smirking, half bored.

Other than discussing bike spaces at big box IKEA, Potter doesn't care much about sports (IMO). And unless he's looking for a reason to trash MLB2PDX or other business growth incentives, he's doesn't much care to discuss education either (again, IMO).

quote:

All of the potential candidates for relocation are inching closer to new ballparks and it looks as if expansion is our only option. From the posts and other information I have gathered on the internet it seems as if 2009 is the earliest we can even begin to speak of an expansion team but my question is where is the campaign leadership? If expansion is perhaps our only option, is there anyone here in the Metro area banging on the MLB office door saying we want a team here? If a group of people would start to put facts and figures in front of the commish and other officials about the validity of our market can we perhaps at least have a stadium site chosen and more funding at the ready when needed. It just seems to me that if we had a bit more of our act together besides SB5 and more leadership we would be a much more attractive market.

On one level I think you are making a fair point... we should have leaders pressing for MLB2PDX, whether it is done actively or quietly behind the scenes. But on another level I couldn't say it would do any good for the following reasons:

1. 2009 is simply Selig's retirement date. Expansion becomes a possibility when it is in MLB's best interests strategically and financially... not on PDX's viability.

2. MLB already knows that, assuming we can get a great stadium built without excessively burdening ownership, we are viable today, and we are becoming more viable every day. We're viable... we would get ownership when the opportunity presents itself... we have the sites... the challenge would be assembling the plan, and you can't do it in a vacuum when there is no team available.

quote:

Expansion costs? Does anyone know of the potential price for an expansion team? Would the price be paid by ownership, city a combo of both? Just curious?

Ownership.

quote:

Is a roof here in PDX a neccesity? I don't believe so revenue wise but as as far as attracting other events such as monster trucks, NCAA final four, major conventions, NCAA bowl game I would think a roof would be needed for further revenue generated around the ballpark year round and for the city, team and stadium ownership.

Personally I'm against the roof because it's expensive, bad for aesthetics, unnecessary during baseball season, and the revenue opportunities in the winter are extremely limited for a baseball facility. But we'll cross that bridge when it comes.

quote:

All in all....I just would love to see a bit more leadership in this town regarding MLB and being ready when the expansion subject arises and perhaps put a bit of pressure on MLB by having our financing together, a park site picked and all of the other needed fixtures in the next couple years when the time comes and hopefully we can present ourselves as a can't miss market for MLB.

I agree.

I too would like to see someone surface as a leader for MLB2PDX. I don't like our current behind the scenes efforts, I would like to see a more vocal campaign to attract a team. In my opinion you need to get momentum and generate a buzz within the community to gain broad support. If everything is done quietly behind the scenes, how can we generate any excitement within the community. Who is the the leader for MLB2PDX???

There is no leader because at the moment there is no impending movement or expansion. The Oregon Sports Authority is the de facto leadership of the MLB to Portland effort at this time.

It's not that people don't want MLB in Portland. It's that no one is selling the idea of relocation (Marlins are on the brink of a new stadium) and expansion isn't likely to occur until revenues flatten or dip.

I think that those that have invested emotionally and physically in the MLB to Portland effort would rather not become Oscar Goodman at this time.

quote:

Originally posted by Maury:
I think that those that have invested emotionally and physically in the MLB to Portland effort would rather not become Oscar Goodman at this time.

For those who don't know, Oscar Goodman is the erstwhile mayor of Las Vegas who, in his effort to bring MLB to Vegas, could not read the tea leaves and ended up wasting a lot of energy in a Don Quixote-esque quest for MLB. I think he has wised up now for the most part and is being more shrewd and more subtle in going after the NBA.

The most frustrating part of living in Portland is the vocal minority in this city that have the "Keep Portland Weird" bumper stickers on the back of their VW bus and Subaru's. This vocal minority want to keep Portland a small town.

The reality is Portland is not small and hasn't been small for quite some time. We are the same size Denver was when they received their 4th major league team. I believe the majority of people in this city do not share this small minded viewpoint. The problem is "Perception = Reality" in this city.

Without a vocal leader in this campaign we will not get the city of Portland motivated to support this effort.

Everyday for the past 7 years I have checked this web site & PDX baseball group for any news hoping to see some progress in landing a MLB team in Portland. The problem is that only like minded people are viewing this website.

Without a vocal leader that can shout louder than the very vocal minority in this city we will be left behind once again when an opportunity does come around. Aggressive cities like Phoenix, Denver, Charlotte, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, San Antonio, Las Vegas, ect are in the news and vocal about what they want.

Example: Not that I like hockey, but Pittsburg is just begging us to take their team. Kansas City, Mo. offered free rent and half of all revenues if they agreed to play in Kansas City's soon-to-be-completed $262 million Sprint Center. Now that is an aggressive approach. Even if this doesn't work for them, they will be viewed as a viable alternative down the road.

Where was Portland in all of this? Not a whisper! The silent approach gives more power to the vocal minority in this city!

The situation with the Penguins (which, by the way, is moot now that they are staying put... announcement today) was not as simple as yelling loudly for a franchise. If Paul Allen owns the building, then Paul Allen has to want to have another tenant. He would broker the deal.

This gets lost on occasion...

When these that majority of these deals get done it really is a matter of private enterprise at work. One team wishes to move. An owner is willing to purchase the team and place it in a facility that they already own, or work in a public/private capacity to get into a new facility.

In the case of the Expos relocation, ownership was asked to step aside. If they weren't, Fred Malek would now be owning the Nationals as opposed to Ted Lerner.

In the case of KC they did a Build it and they Will Come. Those deals, which by the way I highly oppose, can lure teams to a city. Now, how long it takes is another story.

I agree wholeheartedly that Portland has Smallville disease at the moment. That has to do with the current leadership in City Hall. I can also say that on more then one occasion, that view and other aspects of government has nearly caused me and my family to move elsewhere.

In closing, yelling from the highest rooftop at this point is fruitless. If there is a franchise even remotely close to moving, it's not in the foreseeable future. Expansion will ramp things up. If Selig, or his predecessor (most likely Andy McPhail) decide that the time is right to go to 32 clubs, there will be noise in advance, and we can take it from there. I would think that by that time changes at City Hall might make our situation better.

I encourage you to swing by O'Connors in Multnomah Village this Saturday so we can talk about this topic. Myself and Rob Neyer of ESPN will be there for a Baseball Prospectus Pizza Feed and book signing.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Klee:
Everyday for the past 7 years I have checked this web site & PDX baseball group for any news hoping to see some progress in landing a MLB team in Portland. The problem is that only like minded people are viewing this website.

Holy smokes. You've been reading the pablum that I have posted for all these years? You deserve a team just for enduring that alone!

But seriously, you are making some great points. Feel free to continue posting. I have been saying "We need a Colangelo" for years now... unfortunately I have been posting messages in my free time instead of building my empire.

Thanks for the replies; I just don't understand the mind set of the Portland area. I travel all over the US for my job and get to attend many MLB games during the spring and summer. My travel schedule is flexible enough that I get to see 15-20 MLB games a year. My wife and I take our two young boys to Phoenix for spring training every year. My boys love it we have discussed about moving our family to Phoenix just for this reason. We leave for Phoenix next Thursday,,,,,maybe we won't come back.

MLB is part of our American culture and living in a city that has this is important to me. This doesn't mean I am not concerned about my children's education and the growing cost for this.

My final comment of frustration about Portland is this. I attend many Portland Beaver games too (20+) with my family a year. Portland has some of, if not the best summers anywhere. Where are the fans? Sure I would love to see the Yankees or the Cubs come to town, but baseball is baseball and a cold beer is a cold beer. We where at the first home stand on a Friday night last year (Weather: 64 and clear). I think we had about 5,000 people! You are kidding me!

What time is the book signing? I would like to stop by.

I know exactly how you feel, Jim, because I feel 100% the way you do--however, it's not just that Portlanders can be apathetic, it's that our city has lacked a Jerry Colangelo-type (a Phoenician--a city that probably wasn't lifting too many fingers for a MLB team, but Colangelo, a man with the werewithal to make things happen for Phoenix, simply decided Arizona should/would have a MLB team) to force and expediate the issue of bringing MLB to Portland...Phil Knight tried, some time ago, in the early 90s to buy and move the Giants to Portland, but upon seeking help from the state of Oregon, was met with less than a cooperative attitude, so Knight abandoned his plans, and ostensibly has never sought (to bring MLB to PDX) again...makes one wish he had a few billion dollars lying around somewhere!

quote:

Originally posted by James Stock:P
Phil Knight tried, some time ago, in the early 90s to buy and move the Giants to Portland, but upon seeking help from the state of Oregon, was met with less than a cooperative attitude, so Knight abandoned his plans, and ostensibly has never sought (to bring MLB to PDX) again.

Where did you come up with this?

Dwight Jaynes reported it back in the day (mid-late 90s methinks)

quote:

Originally posted by James Stock:
Dwight Jaynes reported it back in the day (mid-late 90s methinks)

Have to talk to Dwight about this. Never heard of it, nor has anyone else.

Maury, be my guest. Let me know how it turns out. Thanks.

Greetings
Jim, you sound a bit like myself. We relocated to Las Vegas for my job, but now are in the process of moving to Phoenix. Spring training was great this year with my two boys(6 and 3). Phoenix is a sports haven, plus the 9 months of great weather is ideal. Portland is a long way off from obtaining a 2nd major sports team. The perception in Phoenix is that sports create money, entertainment and clout. Here you can watch NFL, MLB, NHL and NBA. Also, there is the minor league hockey, arena football, NASCAR, and golf galore. Spring Training here rolls right into the D-backs season. With the Super Bowl here next year and perhaps in 2011 the entertainment never ends. These leaders here in Phoenix are realist, not dreamers. The people who live here believe in their elected officials to do what is right: bring a social life to all who live here (not just "greeners). Anyways, think about the 9 months of cold and warm rain, or the 9 months of outdoor weather. Good luck, and take the plunge.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockstar:
Anyways, think about the 9 months of cold and warm rain, or the 9 months of outdoor weather.

You must be thinking about Florida. Enjoy Hades. Try "outdoors" from May to September and don't forget the SPF 10,000. There's a reason my wife moved from Phoenix to Portland rather than I moving to Phoenix.

Point taken Maury. But after being in the desert for almost 2 years personally I disagree. I have been to Phoenix just about every month and yes late May to early September it is hot, but people do get acclamated. Why is the Phoenix area growing over 100,ooo a year? Because the weather for an entire year is much better than anywhere in the country.

I found a lovely place to visit. Monsoons are not much fun, nor the dust storms. Winter and early spring... sure. Cost of living? Ditto. Crime... check, please. Air and water quality... forget it.

I'll travel there more often now that the business is setup and I can make trips related to sports. East Coast comes first, however.

Ditto, correct. I can go on about the Northwest where I lived for some 36 years as well, but it comes down to personal likes. For me the rain, cold, wind and ice storms don't sit well with me any longer. This plus the fact we can only watch the Blazers does not compare to the sports mecca of the greater Phoenix area.

I love it when people leave the Portland area for somewhere else

No place is perfect.

My wife & I usually visit Phoenix twice - once in March, and once in late August-early September (when it is Hades Hot + monsoons, but you can get a five star hotel for a hundred bucks a night).

I love Phoenix but it is starting to turn into LA there. Insane traffic, pollution, and crime, and the schools have been ranked among the worst in any state. And I don't know how anyone is going to ride their light rail once it finally opens when it is 100+ degrees outside. Still, the sun and the "dry heat" are great, Arizona is a beautiful state, and the pro-sports and entertainment bias is refreshing compared to what we deal with here.

I love Portland but it drives me nuts around this time of the year because the blah weather lasts for about two months too long. But overall I'll take the weather here over most of the country. Especially in the winter when we have 45-50 degrees and light drizzle most days while much of the country is stuck with snow and below freezing temps.

quote:

Originally posted by Blazerfan72:
I love it when people leave the Portland area for somewhere else

Why? Do you want your property values to drop? Do you want Portland to remain a "Blazers only" town? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely curious.

quote:

Originally posted by Maury:

quote:

Originally posted by Rockstar:
Anyways, think about the 9 months of cold and warm rain, or the 9 months of outdoor weather.

You must be thinking about Florida. Enjoy Hades. Try "outdoors" from May to September and don't forget the SPF 10,000. There's a reason my wife moved from Phoenix to Portland rather than I moving to Phoenix.

Although there are some nice areas around Tampa that I could live in, I would NEVER want to live in Florida over Arizona. Take all the things you don't like about Phoenix, then add in the humidity, the bugs, the alligators, the hurricanes, and the homeowner's insurance rates. I'll take Phoenix any day.

quote:

Originally posted by The Cactus Leaguer:

quote:

Originally posted by Blazerfan72:
I love it when people leave the Portland area for somewhere else

Why? Do you want your property values to drop? Do you want Portland to remain a "Blazers only" town? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely curious.

First of all, NOTHING is going to bring down the property values in this town. They are going to continue to go higher and higher. People moving away from PDX are not going to change that. And no, I do not want Portland to remain a "Blazers only" town.. don't let the name fool you. In fact, quite the contrary. I would like PDX to get every sport we can, and we have more than enough people at the moment to do so, and at the rate people are moving to this state, that is not going to change any time soon. I love this state and it always amuses me when people want to leave for the warmer climates. I would rather those people were not here....

Fair enough. At this point I don't think the exodus to Nevada and Arizona outweighs the influx. But at a certain point supply and demand economics kick in on housing prices.

And yes, this place is perfect for people who enjoy perfect summers and mild (albeit long) winters. Year long sun worshippers need not apply, but east coast refugees who are sick of wintry blizzards and humid summers will find this place a slice of heaven.

That being said, we have a family tradition of being raised and working in the Northwest, and moving south to retire (and we may do the same someday). I don't begrudge those people one bit, though I'd prefer they spend more of their PERS retirement dollars up here.

Why bash the dude because he likes warmer climes?

Personally this winter was horrible up here in Seattle. Worse than Oregon's by far. I too am fed up with this winter as well as most of my friends. If you are going to bash because he'd rather live in Phoenix than Portland, well...I got news for you.

They got all 4 major sports plus the minor ones, a booming economy, and cheaper housing. Portland's population is going up, Phoenix' is exploding. Saying you'd rather not have those types live here....Well....If you get your wish Portland will become a no-team town, because there are lot of natives who are sick of the weather, traffic, and cost of living.

First of all, NOTHING is going to bring down the property values in this town. They are going to continue to go higher and higher. People moving away from PDX are not going to change that.

Um...It's called "supply and demand", people moving away means there are open houses and apartments. Which means rents and mortgages have to go down in order to sell..Basic economics.

With a state government that is commmunistic and a state legislature that gets nothing done, and with higher taxes, people are going to look at other options.

Seattle and Portland aren't slowing down but...The higher the tax burden becomes the less people will choose to live here.

Sorry, but a place like Arizona or Nevada which are among the lowest taxed areas in the US with their great weather and much lower cost of living are thriving. The provincial attitude here is keep raising taxes and people will still come because we are so great isn't going to fly for long...

These areas are one tech bust away from being in deep $hit. Not going to sugar coat it...Look at Bellevue in 1997 and if you went there in 2001 you'd be amazed at the vacancies in office buildings and the for sale signs in front of houses. That was all because of the .com bust.

With the fact that logging isn't allowed because enviroNazis want to save spotted owls, and fishing is limited, as well as mining. The tech companies are really the only thing left.

And with higher taxes, they too will leave...Thanks to over regulation we can't harvest raw materials in the Northwest, in most areas raw materials are the backbone of an economy and should be, because companies have to come here to harvest. This economy is based on companies that could do just as well in Calcutta than Corvallis.....

This topic is sort of why there are only a few who reply. Just because he speaks his mind, whether its about MLB, Living areas, politics or whatever, those select few shoot them down with their "small-town" mentality. This is exactly why PDX will always be a one-team town. The micro thinking on this site, is believe it or not, a picture perfect view of the masses in PDX. I can't help to think in 10-15 years when MLB may expand, that San Antonio, Las Vegas, Inland Empire, Sac-town, Norther New Jersey and even OKL-City will be much more prepared and willing to get that team(s). I too loved PDX for all those years I lived there, but its amazing when you get away and try something new what else there is out there: great weather, pro-sports (4), major college sports and academics, thriving economy, snow skiing within 2 hours, watersports, etc. Get the picture, you really can't say much if you have not tried it!!!!!

Rockstar - I hope you are wrong but I agree with you 100% that there is definitely a small town, anti-business element that does not serve the city well. Good look in Phoenix and stay in touch with the site. Who knows, maybe we'll join you down there. Goodyear is pretty tempting now that the Indians are moving there!

I hope that I am wrong as well, but when you look at reality and those involved, at least in our generation, it is a more correct view than anyone on looking at this site can believe. MLB, NHL and NFL will probable not be in PDX for many decades to come. I believe this because of some very obvious points; no true leadership in PDX, Seattle will always be bigger and better when it comes to colleges, pro-sports and entertainment, other emerging metro areas throughout the country are forward thinking and growing with more clout, lack of fortune 500 companies, and the laid back attitude of basically every Oregonian. There are others, but I figure those who chat or run this site will just use their "small-minded mentality" to shoot it down to justify their thoughts. Anyways, the only way for PDX'ers to watch MLB will be to travel or move!!

quote:

Originally posted by Maury:

quote:

Originally posted by Rockstar:
Anyways, think about the 9 months of cold and warm rain, or the 9 months of outdoor weather.

You must be thinking about Florida. Enjoy Hades. Try "outdoors" from May to September and don't forget the SPF 10,000. There's a reason my wife moved from Phoenix to Portland rather than I moving to Phoenix.

Maury, if you want to live in Florida, be my guest!! The weather is unbelievably hot down there in summer(if Phoenix is Hades, Florida is the Lake of Fire), people can't drive, and property taxes have soared down there. Don't forget about all the hurricanes and tornadoes that sweep the area every single year!!! (Rain comes in huge monsoons. I've been in some Oregon rainstorms before, and it's nothing compared to what I've seen in Florida and Alabama) It's gotten so bad that many Floridians have begun to relocate across state borders into Alabama and Georgia. It used to be rare for to see a Mexican where I live, but now they form a very large portion of our community. And yes, we have some who can't speak any English too!! There's a reason I can't wait to leave the South. (Darn lousy Wal-Mart pay!!!)

I have never been to Florida, but I have met quite a few Floridans here in Vegas who have echoed exactly what you are saying. The weather in the desert SW just seems so calm to me, besides the 3 months of heat (as are friends from Portland who have lived in Phoenix for 5 years say, June is hot, but you live with it; July is like "man it is hot"; and August your just ready to get out, but then from September through May you realize why they moved there)

It's kind of like that in Portland. If you can survive October through March/early April, you're rewarded with April-September.

Yes, it's dark and dreary in the winter months, but it's incredibly nice in the summers here.

That's not to say that the Southern Arizona to San Diego are doesn't have good points. It does. I wouldn't move there without a good reason, but it wouldn't be too hard to find a good reason.

I love this area a lot more, and heat isn't my ideal of a reason to live somewhere. I like being close to the Ocean and I like being here because being here is close to Priest Lake Idaho (family has a cabin there) and San Diego (and Phoenix/Tucson/Mesa, etc) isn't.

I don't fault people for wanting to live elsewhere where it's warmer year round. I just like the idea of not having to ship in water, and having to use AC all the time (or a lot of the year).

Plus, trees and green are favorites of mine.

I feel that in the Northwest you survive from October to late June, not early March/April. I to don't fault people for where they choose to live, but for me personally better weather for 9 months, closer to family which relocated to the desert, better sports venues, and closer to SoCal for all the family fun(not airline tickets need to be purchased). For most they don't realize that within a 2 hour drive of Phoenix you are in the mountains(think Central Oregon to the tee!).

quote:

Originally posted by Rockstar:
I feel that in the Northwest you survive from October to late June, not early March/April. I to don't fault people for where they choose to live, but for me personally better weather for 9 months, closer to family which relocated to the desert, better sports venues, and closer to SoCal for all the family fun(not airline tickets need to be purchased). For most they don't realize that within a 2 hour drive of Phoenix you are in the mountains(think Central Oregon to the tee!).

the only reason I'd live in that area (well, outside of an obvious one) is that it's close to where my sister lives. The good weather for 9 months to me isn't really that important. I like our weather from April-September. But I like rain cleaning out stuff, and filling our reservoirs.

Of course, people like certain areas for a variety of reasons. I don't have family in Arizona (well, I do) and most of my family is in the Portland area. Some people might not like Portland because their parents moved here when they were a teenager, and never grew up here. They might refer to Portland as their home, but they didn't grow up in the area for 15-40 years.

For me, I grew up here and have a historical connection to the city (an actual historical connection). The people running the city bug the shinola out of me, but the city (or weather) doesn't.

I can see why someone might not like the city, if they've lived elsewhere (say prior to living here, or college). I can also see why people might stay here once they move here, and let it "grow" on you. I've often told "newbies" to wait out the rainy half of the year for the dry half. It makes up for it. And so far, the vast majority of people who I've said that to, agree'd after a year.

As for the "fun" aspect..I've never been into the "fun" thing. Yah, Arizona has the Grand Canyon, but seriously, how many times can you go to that? (that was meant to be a sarcastic comment, as in the obvious answer would be "a lot"..but that didn't come out right the first time, so I had to add this explanation).

We do have Hells Canyon (altho obviously not the the same degree) so it's possible to see something like that here.

Yah, there's DisneyLand, and all the other theme park type places in So-Cal, but Im not a kid and I don't have kids. That's not important to me.

I think it's also a personal choice (duh). For me, I like cool summer nights, proximity to Mt Hood, Mt St Helens, Mt Jefferson, Bend, Multnomah Falls, the coast, the gorge, Crater Lake, a ton of tree's AND a lack of 115 degree days.

To some, those aren't important (and they like 115 degree days). That's ok. I could learn to live with it (for a reason). But I'd hope that my reason to go there, would not be opposed to me being her reason for coming back up here instead.

My families property in Idaho trumps a lot of stuff anyways. ****, if I could live in Spokane (I mean, SPOKANE for gods sake) I would instead.

Flagstaff is nice, and it is a godsend for people looking for a break from Phoenix in the summer, but I would take Bend/Central Oregon over Flagstaff in a heartbeat as a vacation spot.

Then again, I would take the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, and Zion Canyon over Crater Lake, so there ya go. Sedona versus the Gorge? That's a tough one.

Solution? Snowbird... Still haven't convinced my employer to open a winter branch in Goodyear, though

quote:

Originally posted by The Cactus Leaguer:
Then again, I would take the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, and Zion Canyon over Crater Lake, so there ya go. Sedona versus the Gorge? That's a tough one.

Isn't Bryce Canyon and Zion Canyon in Utah? I'd then include the Olympic Mountains and the dry falls (?) in Eastern Washington (where the Missoula Floods scooped out the dirt and deposited it here...you know, where there are dry falls where the flood once was..anyone? Scablands maybe? It's too early for my brain to function).

I hope Im not coming off saying I dislike Arizona, or Southern California (well, Southern California north of San Diego I do dislike). I don't. Each has valid reasons for why people want to live there and do. Each has valid reasons for why people wouldn't want to live there, and don't.

It's kinda like this. In my family (my siblings and my cousins) we romantacize 3 places. For one set of cousins, it's Cannon Beach. Their grandmother has a hotel down there, and they've gone down there for ever. They both love CB a ton, and I'd bet, would want to spend as much time there as humanly possible. Me? I dislike Cannon Beach (too touristy. My grandparents, which is also their grandparents, had a place just south of Newport, so I like it a lot better. But they weren't alive when my grandparents had the place so they have no connection to it)

My other cousins have the connection to Alaska. My Aunt and Uncle lived there for a while, and 2 of their 3 kids were born there. They like that place, in fact their daughter moved back up there (ironically, the one who wasn't born there). I don't think any of the rest of the family (outside of those 3) has that connection to Alaska.

For my family, as I've probably said far too often on here, it's Priest Lake Idaho. I know people who wouldn't go up there if you offered to drive and pay. They don't know the beauty of it, and think it's too far away (8 hours from Portland). But if I was given the chance of living in Southern Arizona/California (moving for a career and not because of a relationship) or moving to Spokane, I'd pick Spokane. Despite it's cold cold winters, run-down economy and kind of blah-ness it has. All because I'd be closer to my "eden".

I had a point here somewhere, but I gotta leave so um..enjoy this wandering rant.

Not to be negative, but Priest Lake does not make me feel like I really want to go there. Your comments are so true for all us, go where family is and what gives us inner peace. To knock one or the other is somewhat silly (just like discussing politics or religion). For me, I am a sports fanatic and the desert climate of Phoenix allows me to scratch my ich. As for my two young sons, they like sports, zoo's, mountains and So-Cal, so I think we are going to be in a great area. My job allows me to go there with a career jump as well as family in the neighborhood. Good luck to all those trying to find their inner-peace, but lets not continue to compare (remember somebody in the Bering Strait thinks they live in the best place in the world).

quote:

Originally posted by Hap:
Isn't Bryce Canyon and Zion Canyon in Utah?

Southern Utah, yes... but to me Bryce, Zion, and Grand Canyons are the same general area, same plateau, etc. Bryce makes you feel like you are on Mars.

Yes, southern Utah is a great place to vacation. Both Bryce and Zion are incredible places to see nature at its finest. The Grand Canyon is incredible. There are so many things to take in there. Another great side trip is the Sunset (if I remember the name right) Crators in North-Central Arizona. The skiing up at Byron Head is also great (fluffy snow with blue skies).

quote:

Originally posted by Rockstar:
Not to be negative, but Priest Lake does not make me feel like I really want to go there.

why not?

It's a very clean lake, with beautiful mountains, and incredible views. It's actually one of the more photographed lakes in the country.

I hope it's not because of the (outdated) mindset that "Northern Idaho = Racists". Because that is not very accurate (they're all too poor to live there anyways. ha!) and a little naive.

Here are some pictures up there. It's not like it's Moses Lake, or Cove Palisades or Sprague Lake.








I would suggest going up there (or at least, doing a google image search for it (avoiding Percy Priest Lake in Tennessee) before you make a comment about not wanting to go up there. Those are just the pictures from our cabin, there's a ton more up there (and I didn't include any of the granite mountains north of our cabin). I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't marvel in it's beauty.