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Baseball lets team explore relocation
Las Vegas on list of sites for move as early as 2008
By MARK ANDERSON
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL

The Florida Marlins have put Las Vegas on their short list of possible sites after receiving permission from Major League Baseball to explore relocation, which could occur as early as 2008.

The Miami Herald reported on its Web site Tuesday the Marlins probably will soon have talks with representatives from Las Vegas, Charlotte, N.C., and Portland, Ore.

When asked about Las Vegas at a news conference Tuesday, Marlins president David Samson said, "Again, South Florida is (owner Jeffrey Loria's) first choice. What's appealing to Jeffrey is getting a solution to our franchise problems. ... As far as his preferences after that, everyone else is tied for second."

"The commissioner remains hopeful that the team will stay in southeast Florida in a new facility. However, as you know, plans to finalize a necessary new stadium have not come to fruition despite the efforts of three ownership groups, our office, two world championships and a significant economic proposal by the current owners," MLB chief operating officer Bob DuPuy said via e-mail.

Las Vegas has been reported as a possible destination for the Marlins since two executives met with Mayor Oscar Goodman almost a year ago.

Concerning Tuesday's developments, Goodman spokeswoman Diana Paul said the mayor is "aware of the situation. He's received a few phone calls, none from the Marlins, and he's playing it by ear."

The Marlins, who play in the Miami Dolphins' stadium, have been trying to get a baseball-only park built near the Orange Bowl. Though the funding gap began at $35 million in trying to get a deal completed, it since has grown to about $70 million for the project that would have cost as much as $435 million.

There also was consideration given to building a stadium next to the Dolphins' site, but that gap is $80 million.

"No longer can baseball in South Florida be assured," Loria said in a statement. "It is now clear to us that there will be no baseball stadium in the city of Miami. So we must begin to explore other options. Therefore, we will expand our search beyond the city of Miami."

The Marlins will see if another city will help close any funding gap. They were willing to put $212 million toward a new stadium in South Florida, and are believed to be seeking a similar deal elsewhere.

A stadium is among the projects proposed for the city's 61-acre Union Park land west of downtown should Las Vegas land a team. Financing a park, particularly to the Marlins' liking, is another matter.

Also, there is the issue of whether MLB would put a team in Las Vegas as long as the sports books allowed betting on the local team or on baseball.

The Marlins' lease at Dolphins Stadium expires after the 2007 season. Samson told reporters the club will not extend the lease no matter the circumstances.

Because of the stadium impasse, the team is showing signs of cutting payroll. The Marlins tentatively agreed to trade pitcher Josh Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell to the Boston Red Sox. Beckett is eligible for salary arbitration and probably in line for a $4 to $5 million contract next year, and Lowell's deal is for $9 million each of the next two seasons.

An argument for a new park would be to increase revenue streams and attract more fans to a stadium with a retractable roof. Despite two World Series titles since 1997, the Marlins have struggled at the gate.

Of course, skeptics will say the Marlins asked Major League Baseball for permission to look into relocation as a tool to get a deal done in Miami.

"That's not what this is," Samson told reporters. "This is a deliberate effort by the Marlins to correct what ails them. And what ails us is the amount of money lost."

The Marlins claim that figure is $20 million annually.

"The fiscal insanity that Jeffrey was willing to be a part of for all these years is over," Samson said. "We've been asked time and time again, when does it end? And today is that day."

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

quote:

The Marlins will see if another city will help close any funding gap. They were willing to put $212 million toward a new stadium in South Florida, and are believed to be seeking a similar deal elsewhere.

I would withhold judgement on this statement until this is mentioned directly by Mr. Samson or Mr. Loria.

quote:

The Marlins will see if another city will help close any funding gap. They were willing to put $212 million toward a new stadium in South Florida, and are believed to be seeking a similar deal elsewhere.

Let's assume the Marlins did come to Portland with $212 million and the already approved SB-5 provided $150 million. This would more than cover the cost of a $350 million stadium. Could this be a deal which does not rely on a city portion of funding? If so there would probably be little to no opposition from anyone.

Roy,
One of the key undertakings that has to occur by OSC at a fairly early juncture is a reevaluation of the costing for the stadium. Labor, and material costs have surely risen since 2003 and the effects of Katrina. It may well be that $350 million is no longer achievable. That will have to be determined.

quote:

Originally posted by Maury:
Roy,
One of the key undertakings that has to occur by OSC at a fairly early juncture is a reevaluation of the costing for the stadium. Labor, and material costs have surely risen since 2003 and the effects of Katrina. It may well be that $350 million is no longer achievable. That will have to be determined.

That is a very important point Maury. Construction costs will change the numbers. However, if the city is on the hook for only the cost increase it still makes for a superior deal. Again, as you mentioned hold judgment on that $212 million. Any number of scenarios may play out.
Holy Cow! It's good to be having these discussions.

I would be (happily) surprised if the Marlins ownership was willing to commit over $200 million towards a ballpark in Portland or any other market that is smaller than Miami. The franchise valuation wouldn't justify kicking in that high of an amount like it would in a top 10 market.

Nonetheless, I do think that it would be fair to assume that any future potential relocation candidates (FLA/OAK/MIN/?) would bring something to the table and not expect a free stadium. In today's post-Expos environment there is NO WAY any team is getting a free stadium on the backs of taxpayers.

And before everyone starts freaking out about what Jayson Stark or Ron Pivo or (insert drooling sportswriter dreaming of free trips to Vegas' name here) says about Vegas' chances: along with all the other reasons which have been well-chronicled about their shortcomings, remember this --- no one says boo in Vegas unless the casinos say so --- and up until now the casinos have said they are totally against MLB2LV.

Everyone likes to pile on about Mayor Potter and how Oregon supposedly doesn't have the will to put a stadium package together, but remember --- Oregon was the ONLY relo candidate outside of DC to put ANY funding package together. And then of course, everyone conveniently forgets about the objections of the Vegas casinos who have more clout than any politician. Whatever. Let the handicapping continue.

quote:

Originally posted by The Cactus Leaguer:


Everyone likes to pile on about Mayor Potter and how Oregon supposedly doesn't have the will to put a stadium package together, but remember --- Oregon was the ONLY relo candidate outside of DC to put ANY funding package together. And then of course, everyone conveniently forgets about the objections of the Vegas casinos who have more clout than any politician. Whatever. Let the handicapping continue.

Well Greg...I am one who piled on about Tom Potter.
Oregon has the will and proved it with SB5. The City of Portland still needs to prove it. The way I see it Oregon was the ONLY relo candidate outside of DC to put ANY funding package together in spite of Tom Potter. To date,I give him zero credit for anything twords baseball.
Vera, Ted, OSC members and other key players deserve all the credit. Mayor Potter..No.
He will soon be given the opportunity to earn credit for helping bring MLB2PDX.

How true about the Vegas casinos.
The are the most powerful local lobying group in the country bar none. An MLB stadium is a net loss to the gaming industry.

Hey, guys, just wanted to wish you all good luck with the Marlins prospect.

I get the feeling that the Marlins have a hard on for Vegas if they were to move. Anyone else get this feeling? Vegas is the "glamourous" relo site in this derby, but money talks. Portland is the better market overall, without a doubt. Of course, Loria probably wants to stay in S. Florida/Metro Dade area. At any rate, good luck. I'll be rootin' for ya.

Handicaps on bringing MLB to LV:

51st in TV Markets with no near by markets to helps (Reno? Boise? SLC?)

Available season ticket holder base is maybe 25,000 people (this is a guess based on nothing more than two factors, most affluent individuals will be working at the casinos during the afternoons, evenings, and weekends which is when the games are played; and LV has alot of service workers with just enough cash for some entertainment, so wouldn't the casino and card game houses want that cash from themselves). So getting a stadium full nightly will be tough.

Casinos would be asked to buy up sections of tickets to be used as incentives to staying at their hotels (maybe going to their casinos?). I find this logic very dubuous since the hotel operators and the casino operators are one and the same and incentives should be to get the over-nighters to the slot machines, not to a ball game.

They have no where to play.


LV is a one trick pony. But maybe the Marlins will bite on that one trick. In my mind, using LV as the threat seems far fetched and just signals that the owner isn't serious about moving the team. It's all hype (but that is what LV is, right).

BB

You have to understand that back east, Vegas is seen as big time. Lights, action, etc. So the perception is that someone might move a team to that city to be in the middle of it all. Portland still suffers from a degree of obscurity. Mention Portland in MIA, and you might get a laugh, same goes for CLT and SA, but mention Vegas and maybe some in S. FLA. will take you seriously.

I am not saying it is this way. I am just trying to figure out the logic from an Eastern point of view. While it is true that Loria is probably just using the lure of other markets to get what he wants, a relo is always possible. You gotta play the game, or the game will play you.

Yep, everybody knows about LAS. PDX is about the size of Denver or Tampa, but many East Coasters still don't know if you're talking about the Portland in Oregon or Maine...basically, PDX, for better or worse (I'd say an emphatic "worse"), for all of its size and influx of new residents, still prefers to lay low and pretend it's Wyoming...p.s. I could easily be wrong, but I really do think the Mahlins are on the move, though again, LAS is the strong favorite.

Las Vegas is overrated when you mention the possibility of having any pro sports except basketball, which I think can work there if only it helps Portland's chances at MLB. It is indeed seen as big time. The lights, action, etc., but it comes down to shelling out the money. I honestly doubt that the betting businesses and casinos would sacrifice part of their business in order to let another business rise. That's a net loss for them, not any gain. This relocation derby for the Marlins is very much winnable for MLB2PDX just as long as all the facts about Portland are sent throughout.

One thing I should mention, even if this turns out to just be an attempt on Loria's behalf to get a better deal for a South Florida stadium, you need to assume that it is true that they are taking the exploring of relocation seriously and that you guys will go on with the planning for PDX and play along with them, because if it turns out that they are serious after all for moving, you need to be prepared regardless. I say start up the stadium plan engine now and go on from that.

Also, exposing the truth about Portland's critical stance with getting an MLB team would help, and the facts about the city, too. In other words, this is winnable, and you just have to get the job done.

Knick 9: Amen, brother!

Agreed Knick_9, isn't a win-win situation for Portland and Oregon (SW Washington too).

If we are taken seriously by the Marlins then we have won and taken another baby step. If we are being used, then at some point, the exposure to Portland as "big league" can only be positive. Politicans need to understand this for what it is, almost free advertising.

When newspaper writers and news agencies come to you and ask for interviews, why wouldn't you wish to put forward your city in the best light. Is Mayor Potter somehow embarassed or afraid to talk about our city in a favorable light. Marketing is nothing more than facts and positive attitude. Believing in your product really helps. I wonder if Mayor Potter understands what this means (positive exposure) and if he has the positive attitude about Portlands' future. I like Mr. Potter and his wishes to get citizens involved. He knows where the skeletons are buried. I think he is doing the right thing about the PDC. I think he cares about the least of us, and that goes along way with me.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant and that goes for positive issues too. Shine the light Mayor Potter!

BB

Joe Hawk, in his sports column in today's Las Vegas Review Journal http://www.lvrj.com ...says there may be a race for which "big league" (he uses "big league" in quotes when discussing the other possible leagues besides MLB) sport will come to LV first. Hawk says LV is equipped to support, at most, 1 major league sport. He echoes our sentiments that the NBA is the best fit for his fair city.

Da NHL Commish was in Vegas for meetings r.e. NHL coming to Vegas? I've never been more bullish on the idea of NHL in LV! I think it's a great idea! ...while not a deal-breaker for MLB in LV, an NHL team in Vegas sure wouldn't hurt our cause!

Well, I live here in the East Coast and I'm sick of having to hear about LV as well. What happened to the notion of having to attract fans to the ballpark? They make it seem like all they need to do is get some high-rollers to come see them and all is set.

Yes, I think this team is yours to lose.

quote:

Originally posted by James Stock:
Joe Hawk, in his sports column in today's Las Vegas Review Journal...

It's posted on the site here.

the only way baseball works in vegas is if there are slot machines in the backs of seats.

not. gonna. happen.

edit: also, the funding for a Miami park had to include a roof. rains too much in the summer in florida. Portland does not have this problem.

Not only does it rain an awful lot in S. Florida in the Summer, but the heat is just stifling. My sister-in-law and her family live in Boca--her kids don't even venture outside very much in summer because of the humid heat...during the winter (spring/fall, too), it's really great, but during the summer, w/the humidity, heat, and mosquitos--it is, in the words of Bill Murray/Carl Spangler, "a little harsh"....it's like Colin Cowherd said: S. Flordia is MLB's worst, in terms of fan avidity, market (actually I'm saying that)--but it's not South Floridians' fault--the heat combined with the myriad number of other things to do in that beautiful, tropical, unique, wonderful part of America...well, it's just not prime baseball territory...really, the Marlins' birth in 1993 wasn't that big of a deal to S. Floridians, since S. Florida had had spring training games forever...Miami, as well as all of Florida, is football territory--not only pro, but college is very big, too...the Dolphins will always own Miami, just as the Bucs will always own Tampa.

As long as the Marlins promote Las Vegas as their threat to move, you know they still think there's a chance Miami will come up with the dosh.

If Portland (or someone else) suddenly moves ahead, then we know Miami came up blank.

As you can tell, I don't take Vegas seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Schmidt:
As long as the Marlins promote Las Vegas as their threat to move, you know they still think there's a chance Miami will come up with the dosh.

If Portland (or someone else) suddenly moves ahead, then we know Miami came up blank.

As you can tell, I don't take Vegas seriously.

I think you are spot on there Paul. I don't take Vegas seriously (for MLB I mean). I barely take them seriously for the NBA, mostly because it's a touristy based city, which isn't smart for NBA. It's good for the greed of the NBA (all star game).

Don't get me started on that bogus junkola. Vegas is just being used (imho) worse than Portland is, in regards to MLB..and in regards to the NBA all star bologna, they were picked soely because it'll make the NBA a ton of money, and the players feel they're entitled to even more "entertainment".

Because of the NBA's poor management of the All Star Game (portland being snubbed for 12 years now since the Garden was opened) has totally made me not even remotely interested in the NBA outside of the Trail Blazers.

Personally, I take all of the Las Vegas talk as a good sign.

For too long Portland has MLB's "threat city." Before an MLB ever comes here it will be replaced in the media by another "threat city," just the way Portland took over shortly before Tampa was awarded a franchise. MLB needs the leverage for new stadiums, etc. they are smart enough to realize that they must appear to have many viable options.

The great thing about Las Vegas is the East Coast perception of it as a Big Time town. It will be easy to keep it in the media as a threat to other cities while Portland slips under the radar and grabs a team.