If not the Expos, maybe the Portland Athletics?

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=60169
August 25, 2003

PORTLAND - If Governor Kulongoski signs the stadium finance plan, then it will be Portland's turn to take it's swing at attracting Major League Baseball to Oregon.
With the possibility in the summer air, the city is already talking about the future.

That talk has baseball fans and city leaders dreaming out loud about the possibility of bringing the majors to the Rose City.

"I think it would be nice to have a team here," said Portland Beaver fan, Eddie Henry. "And hopefully everything will go through."

Major League Baseball backers in Portland feel PGE Park could be a temporary home for a MLB team while a new stadium is under construction, especially now that stadium finance legislation awaits the governor's signature.

KATU asked Rob Neyer, who is an ESPN baseball columnist and author of "Rob Neyer's Big Book of Baseball Lineups," about Portland's newfound enthusiasm.

He said that baseball owners would prefer putting the Expos in the Washington D.C. area.

The D.C. area would bring more people, more pizzazz and more politicians. But Portland's in the running

"Maybe you can play a few games here in 2004. But in my mind, we're not going to see a team here until 2005 at the earliest," said Rob Neyer.

Neyer figured that if Portland doesn't get the Expos, perhaps it will be the future home of another team.

"The Oakland Athletics should be here. I mean, that's the logical place for them to go, because they're not going to get another ballpark in Oakland," said Neyer. "It's very difficult to survive there with the Giants right across the bay. So if we don't get the Expos, to me you've got to look at bringing the Athletics up here."

Which might suit baseball fan Tom Higham just fine.

"It's like it's been rushed through, you need a few more years to think about it and consider it," said Higham.

The legislation will provide up to $150 million through taxes on players' and front office salaries. Stadium supporters say a ticket tax can generate tens of millions of dollars more.

Neyer states in his recent espn.com column "Though not perfect, Portland a viable city for baseball" that whatever stadium is built, it must fit Portland's unique population to be successful.

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Which might suit baseball fan Tom Higham just fine.

"It's like it's been rushed through, you need a few more years to think about it and consider it," said Higham.

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Tom! DUDE! It's taken years just to get this far!

Portland might be a good fit for the A's, but an NL team would be a better fit for Portland.

San Francisco Giants - 2002 National League Champions!

I'll be honest here (and I have a bit of bias, so bear with me...) I see Rob's point in a lot of this.

He and I sat one day and talked about the entire relocation process for probably an hour and a half, and sitting outside of the situation, you could easily make that argument that he is making on some level.

But as he would most likely admit, DC would have to get something in place on the Expos now that would loft them in front of Portland, and do it fast.

The Times article points to possible issues in the "fast" part of this.

But, let's look at this from a clear perspective... if anyone thinks that a team isn't coming here in 1-2 years they are seriously mistaken.

This city is no longer talking about "possibly" having MLB, it's going to be a reality.

That much is a given.

"PLAY BALL!"

We want a NL team though. If MLB wants to have a great fan base here than it will need an NL team in Portland.

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MLB2PDX aka PORSEANIX
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Judging from the situations that some of the "troubled" franchises are in, are the Athletics the next to leave their current area? What does everyone think?

Oakland appears, at least to me, to be a team on the brink of moving. They are stuck in a position of not being able to get a stadium built in downtown Oakland, and the south bay is considered "Giants Territory".

I'll be interested to see what shakes out with some of the franchises once we start getting real close to completion.

You want to talk action... wait till the final pieces start coming together.

"PLAY BALL!"

Besides poor attendance, what are some of the signs to look for that could signal a franchise that is about to move?

Do the A's fit all three criteria, or are they not having lease problems yet?

Also, what other relocation candidates are having these problems?

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Originally posted by Blazerfan72:
Do the A's fit all three criteria, or are they not having lease problems yet?

Also, what other relocation candidates are having these problems?

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IMO I would say that the A's definitely fit all three stipulations put forth by Maury.

They are having dificulty getting a new stadium in the Oakland market.

They are on a short three year lease I believe.

And they have competition from the Giants as well as other competing interests throughout the Bay Area.

Don't forget that Bud Selig has apparently made it mission #1 to get the A's out of Oakland as evidenced by his blocking of numerous groups who have tried to purchase the team in recent years with the stated goal of keeping the team in Oakland.

The current ownership, Schott and Hoffman, are almost 100% certain to sell the team outright after this season is complete and Hoffman at least will be selling his share. They had purchased the team with the hopes of moving it to Santa Clara, where Schott grew up and is a major developer. Santa Clara and neighboring San Jose both rejected the idea of working with the A's to move the team to the South Bay which is largely a mythical "threat to move" type of location rather than a viable place to put an MLB team.

Oakland, on the other hand, is a far better market than has been let on and should Selig and the Giants cease their outright hostilities, which began when the current ownership bought the Giants, there would be no need for them to move. The Bay Area can without a doubt support two major league baseball teams as it has for years and years.

Also, the downtown stadium location that is oft discussed is still very much available as the development project slated to go there, a pet project of mayor brown, is not looking too good.

In fact, the real estate dealings resemble greatly the experience of the Giants in relation to acquiring the China Basin location where PacBell Park would eventually be placed.

I would like to remind you that the owners bought the team with the intention of moving it so they pulled a bit of a 'Major League' and tried to sabotage the fanbase a bit to justify relocation. This was done through several means but primarily by signing rather limited TV and Radio deals. In previous years, even really bad rebuilding stretches the A's had much better TV and Radio coverage and the ownership certainly has not made itself popular by outright denouncing the city and its fans at every possible occasion and attempting to rip both of them off whenever they're not looking.

Hey great update lastexit!

You have any links that you can provide on the Jack London Square development, or that lack thereof that you mention?

As someone that grew up in Berkeley and Richmond, the A's have a spot in my heart.

"PLAY BALL!"

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the A's have a spot in my heart.

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I wouldn't mind it if they had a spot in Portland.

Sorry, lastexit, but I still contend that the Bay Area does not have the population base to support two major league baseball teams. Until shiny new PacBell was built, both teams rarely finished in the top half attendence-wise in either league, and for most of their tenure together, the Giants have consistently outdrawn the A's. If the Bay Area can have two teams, there is absolutely no reason why the Baltimore/Washington area cannot have two teams, and that's a bigger combined metro area than the Bay.

Portland is probally the number one choice for the A's, but has a darkhorse dont leave out San Antonio. That is mine and BC's choice for a team after Portland.

The A's actually outdrew the Giants in total attendance before PacBell. The Giants have way more fans, it was just that Candlestick sucked. Also these numbers are misleading because the Giants before I believe 1996 only counted people who attended and not who bought the tickets, so their number is deflated. But still the A's had some impressive numbers. The bottom line, is that when the Raiders are in Oakland (1960-1981, 1995-present) the market is too saturated for the East Bay and the A's attendance has decreased.

Giants A's
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1968 837,220 837,466
1969 873,603 778,232
1970 740,720 778,355
1971 1,106,043 914,993
1972 647,744 921,323
1973 834,193 1,000,763
1974 519,987 845,693
1975 522,919 1,075,518
1976 626,868 780,593
1977 700,056 495,412
1978 1,740,477 526,999
1979 1,456,402 306,763
1980 1,096,115 842,259
1981 632,274 1,311,761
1982 1,200,948 1,735,489
1983 1,251,530 1,294,941
1984 1,001,545 1,353,281
1985 818,697 1,334,599
1986 1,528,748 1,314,646
1987 1,917,168 1,678,921
1988 1,785,297 2,287,335
1989 2,059,701 2,667,225
1990 1,975,528 2,900,217
1991 1,737,478 2,713,493
1992 1,561,987 2,494,160
1993 2,606,354 2,035,025
1994 1,704,608 1,242,692
1995 1,241,500 1,174,310
1996 1,413,922 1,148,380
1997 1,690,869 1,261,219
1998 1,925,367 1,232,339
1999 2,078,365 1,434,632

Total 41,834,233 42,719,034

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when the Raiders are in Oakland (1960-1981, 1995-present) the market is too saturated for the East Bay and the A's attendance has decreased.

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A brilliant observation, dcandrsn. Look at the A's from 1988-93: over 2,000,000 in attendance, more than enough to be a viable entity. Since 1994: well under 2,000,000 each year, closer to 1,000,000. I don't know the exact years the Raiders were gone to L.A., but that certainly seems signifcant to me. Maybe the A's COULD survive in Oakland - if Mad Al takes his gridiron gang back south.

And how 'bout that 306,000 figure for the A's in '77? Think Bud wouldn't have been trying to ship that team elsewhere back then? That's aobut when they almost became the Denver A's. Of course, back then, payrolls hadn't skyrocketed out of control, either, and it didn't take as many fans to survive.

My, how the times have changed!

I live in San Francisco but work in Oakland. And let me tell you, that place is Raider crazy . I have been to a dozen major us cities, and none of them have as many sports related car decals as the Oakland raiders. I am talking old cars and new, they love their Raiders. It is like Blazermania of the early 1990's, only in Oakland the team, the stadium, and the fans are more ghetto.

But the A's and the Warriors, no one really cares about.. I saw them play Seattle 2 monts ago and the Colesseum was only 1/3 full. For a huge series like that? On a weekend? The A's are a playoff team this year, they are division leaders. The only thing better than getting a team in Portland is getting a good team, and the A's are a good team.

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Originally posted by Hillsballer:
I live in San Francisco but work in Oakland. And let me tell you, that place is Raider crazy . I have been to a dozen major us cities, and none of them have as many sports related car decals as the Oakland raiders. I am talking old cars and new, they love their Raiders. It is like Blazermania of the early 1990's, only in Oakland the team, the stadium, and the fans are more ghetto.

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Is 80% of Oakland's new cars black? Cause 80% of KC's new cars are red.

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Originally posted by Hillsballer:
I live in San Francisco but work in Oakland. And let me tell you, that place is Raider crazy . I have been to a dozen major us cities, and none of them have as many sports related car decals as the Oakland raiders. I am talking old cars and new, they love their Raiders. It is like Blazermania of the early 1990's, only in Oakland the team, the stadium, and the fans are more ghetto.

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The Raiders don't even sell out all their games... even with the resurgence.

Thing is, the way that the media have gleaned over time that the Giants have "always" had better support than the A's is from TV, radio, and other media ratings. The funny thing is, even during the 49ers dynasty years, the Raiders were at least as highly regarded in the Bay Area (and, IIRC, during this period, they were the Los Angeles Raiders). Go figure.

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"To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be."

I don't have a link pertaining to Jack London Square developments. The key site for a new A's park selected last year is in North Oakland, 23rd stret-ish. There is a major housing development slated to go into that spot, the developers are friends of Jerry Brown, but it has stalled and doesn't seem anymore likely to happen than any other project. www.oaklandtribune.com and www.contracostatimes.com are good places to check for info on that but I believe the LACK of info speaks volumes. Basically Brown tried to shut down talk of an A's ballpark going into that spot to protect his friends deal but that deal has never really gotten off the ground at all and depends heavily on city money that is obviously not in abundance right now.

A big thing that most people forget is that there are HUGE suburbs in the East Bay and those areas are most definitely A's country and always have been. The SF Bay Area has nearly 6 million people and there are no other baseball teams in northern california so there are a couple more million natural fans for the Giants and A's.

The attendance figures posted are great because they stop at 1999. Attendance has been above 2 million for the fourth straight season now. Keep in mind that the Raiders and the city screwed the A's and ruined their ballpark in the mid-90s. In what is generally regarded as a lousy ballpark (in a lousy neighborhood!) the A's are drawing 2-2.5 million fans a season. Not bad, consider what they could draw in a nice new park in a reasonable location!

I believe that all the hostility toward the A's comes from the SF Giants gigantic inferiority complex. They somehow feel that if they can't win a world series at the very least they could get the team that CAN win them out of the area so it doesn't look so bad heheeh