HA! Yeah, there is a way to look at it.....


Mighty Ducks of Anaheim 2003 Western Conference Champions!!

Anaheim Angels 2002 World Champions!!

Well, Mike, welcome to our forums...

For one, you seem to be more than a little uniformed... passionate, but uninformed, and I hope that you'll read through some of this so that you have a better understanding of what we are trying to do here. On your points...

#1 - Hey, the good news is apparently a lot of people are seeing it. Advertisement normally takes 9 viewings before it sets in. Guess you may have seen it 10 or 11, but the point is advertisement on TV works.

#2 - All advertisement is free. We didn't spend a cent on the commercial's creation, nor the airtime. Both were donated.

#3 - What you recall is markets that were not profitable. Using this scenario you have expressed here, Boeing should shut down rather than move a satellite business. Business is good in MLB (its worth more than all other pro sports combined), just not in some markets. Portland is the largest undeserved sports market in the US. Period. MLB to Portland makes good sense from that perspective.

#4 - Mass transit gets used in this city. That was not the purpose of the ad. We do not work directly with Tri-Met; although leveraging mass transit when a stadium gets built is important.

#5 - We advertise information about the campaign, yes. You have proven some of those points well... perceptions about MLB to Portland are not all correct. If you take the time to read the bill in question, or read some of the material here you'll see exactly why this is being done. Please keep the $50.00.

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Spend the money on schools, roads, fighting crime something worthwhile or a tax cut. We are overtaxed!

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This is why we need people such as yourself need to post here and read.

No one ever said that money didn't need to get spent on those issues. We work directly with "Bring Major League Education to Oregon" and believe that we can do economic development and build community assets at the same time.

No one is going to have taxes raised. We are simply requesting that the taxes generated by the ballplayers, and people making over $50,000 a year get earmarked to pay the construction bonds. Not one cent gets removed from services. No one is having they're taxes raised.

This is organization is based on several 501(c) entities... in other words, non-profit. I get no paycheck, nor do others working in this effort.

Monies raised come from fundraising. Companies and people donate because they see the value in this that maybe you do not. Take a look at the list of 586 business involved in this effort on the site here. They see MLB to Portland as good business.

Bottom line is... we wish to see some jobs created where there currently are none (the stadium will create 1,500 direct construction jobs), stem the flow of dollars into Washington (millions every year go to Seattle to see the Mariners as 10% of ticket sales come from within Oregon), and bring some of the money in SW Washington here.

As for the sweaty Peanut Guy... the commercial was originally taped 3 years ago, and yes... donated.

"PLAY BALL!"

[This message was edited by Maury on June 03, 2003 at 02:51 PM.]

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Originally posted by Mike Greene:
This whole thing is a lost cause. I bet the whole major league quietly snickers to themselves about relocating to Portland. How many years do you prom ice to use the stadium if it is funded? Can anyone remember the Memorial Coliseum... It sits vacant now and does not pay for itself. When something does go into it, it is a circus or team hockey.

Spend the money on schools, roads, fighting crime something worthwhile or a tax cut. We are overtaxed!

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If the whole thing is a lost cause, then you have nothing to worry about. Did you write a letter to the Miller Lite girls too to tell them that their commercials are a waste of time? Cuz' darn it, I don't know about you, but I won't drink Miller Lite no matter how many times they play those goofy commercials!

Do you honestly feel that Memorial Coliseum was a failure? Even Lars Larson doesn't make that claim. If you honestly feel that the MC (built in 1960, host to countless events, generating millions in revenue for the region for 40+ years) was a failure, then I don't see how we can convince you that a baseball stadium would benefit the region.

When the bonds are paid off, ALL of those tax dollars from the athletes and team management will go to schools, roads, police, etc., who knows, maybe you WILL end up getting a tax cut from this!

TCL

MLB will bring jobs, taxes, and civic pride at no cost to the taxpayer. I agree that schools and social services need help, and that is why I support bringing MLB to Portland. Bringing thousands of jobs, millions of dollars, and a new source of community spirit and civic pride will help us, not hurt us.

MLB does take Portland as a market ver seriously. We have a CMSA of 2.3 million people. We have only one sports franchise, which plays in a seperate season. we have great baseball weather and proven support for big league sports.

I admire you guys coming here and speaking your mind. It is important to be heard. Obviously 99.9% of us disagree with you. I hope that you will continue to debate in a rational way.

BTW...I love the peanuts guy!

Just remember... MLB for free...economic impact, jobs, taxes,tourism and civic pride for us in amuch needed time. These are parts of the equation to help our state recover.

All I am going to say to Mike is that I am a Republican. I feel like I am overtaxed, too. I am tired of being made to feel like the anti-christ if I don't support social causes to the extent that some in this area do. I am tired of the government waste and the approach of throwing money at problems to fix them. I am thus like you, Mike, but I have taken the time to analyze this proposal and it is my opinion that you are barking up the wrong tree. This project does not involve a state-handout or financial support of a private enterprise. All the new taxes that were passed are going to programs where it will be hard for us to see direct financial returns. This situation is different. No public money is going to baseball or the stadium. Research the issue by reading through the site. The folks who are promoting this have done a FANTASTIC job to assure that the financial security of the public is not put at risk. After researching the issue, one can only conclude that they must support the effort or that they have no reason not to support it (thus remaining neutral and not becoming a barrier to the project). I hope you will come to the same conclusion I have.

Not too PC....We just don't point out everyones flaws....

[This message was edited by HaloHawk94 on June 04, 2003 at 02:57 AM.]

Hey if this park thing is so great why don't you guys sell stock in it and let private people/companies contribute. Buy the land at a fair market price and run it like a REAL business. Don't leave us holding the bill for this when your tickets and $5 hotdogs don't sell as fast as you thought.

Cactus:
The bonds you speak of will never be paid off or at least not in the timeframe you suggest. The cost estimates for building this park were dreamed up in a vacum. Also the memorial coliseum sits vacant a majority of the time. Same is true with the Airport MAX. Sure tax dollars may not be spent but we will ultimately pay the price in higher cost in products and services and utilities we all need.

~Don't tax me, don't tax you, tax that other guy behind that tree.

Hey look it's a party!

Glad to see that guests are chiming in! On to these comments:

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Hey if this park thing is so great why don't you guys sell stock in it and let private people/companies contribute.

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This option is being explored. It is an idea that would allow the public to have some input and some say.

But, my question is why not let the million dollar players pay for this? Here's a case where the people employed at the park pay for the park. Some would see this as a mild form of justice given the exploding salaries.

Bottom line... If taxes aren't raised, and services aren't impacted, where's the downside?

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The bonds you speak of will never be paid off or at least not in the timeframe you suggest.

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No, the figures used were very conservative given the fact that over 30 years salaries have skyrocketed.

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Don't leave us holding the bill for this when your tickets and $5 hotdogs don't sell as fast as you thought.

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Let's say all baseball players decide to work for free. The state is not held libel for the cost. A third party guarantor has to be in place before one cent is earmarked to pay off the construction bonds. The taxpayers are not on the hook at any point in this process.

As a matter of fact we've placed a litany of safeguards that protect the taxpayers that you can read here.

In other words, someone has to be willing to cover any shortfall if the tax revenue stream drops below the debt service.

No, it will not be the state of Oregon.

No it will not be the city of Portland.

An example is this... The Governor has given us the OK to explore options with the Grand Ronde tribe.

No, there is no casino involved at this time.

Here's the gist here: "Don't tax me if I don't wish to go to a ballgame. Add a ticket tax at the gate, because I'm a baseball fan, and I'll pay for it to have MLB here. No one else should be impacted."

"PLAY BALL!"

[This message was edited by Maury on June 04, 2003 at 07:35 AM.]

I hope that there are many others that will chime in here. It seems more than a few think that their taxes are involved -- that they'll get left holding the bag somehow.

As I mentioned above, I hope that all will look at the bill and the safeguards placed within it. I'm a taxpayer. I don't wish to see my taxes raised one cent in regards to the ballpark. If I don't go to a game, I shouldn't be made to pay for it.

For all that feel that there are issues that may leave them feeling that they will be impacted in some manner outside of the scope I have listed here, please read this page first:

Oregon Ballbark Funding -- HB 3606

"PLAY BALL!"

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Originally posted by Amber:
Cactus:
The bonds you speak of will never be paid off or at least not in the timeframe you suggest.

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First of all, you apparently didn't read the bill because it clearly states that if there is a shortfall, THE OWNER HAS TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE, NOT THE TAXPAYERS. And second, even if you factor in a modest salary inflation rate of 3% (far below the rate of increase over past generations), the bonds will be paid in a timely manner.

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The cost estimates for building this park were dreamed up in a vacum.

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No, the cost estimates were based on past experience with other ballparks.

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Also the memorial coliseum sits vacant a majority of the time.

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Uh, hello, I don't know how old you are, but the Memorial Coliseum was filled consistently for the first 35 years of its existence. The Blazers sold out every game there from 1977-1995. Then they wised up and realized that the MC was too small and had no luxury suites, so they built the Rose Garden across the street. I doubt if the same situation would occur with the baseball stadium, but if it did, so what? The stadium would have been paid off years earlier.

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Same is true with the Airport MAX.

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What does Airport MAX have to do with this? That was privately funded by Bechtel.

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Sure tax dollars may not be spent but we will ultimately pay the price in higher cost in products and services and utilities we all need.

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So you think that businesses and utility companies will raise their prices because of a stadium?!?! I haven't seen that happen in any other city with a baseball stadium, so I'm not getting where you draw this conclusion.

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~Don't tax me, don't tax you, tax that other guy behind that tree.

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No, don't tax the guy behind the tree, either. That's not fair.

People are chiming in, but they aren't reading the messages above their own, which suggests to me that some are not interested in the merits of this project. Rather, some just want to "vent" their anger with the project. That's one of the most amazing things about a BBS, you can post your opinion without even giving the time of a day to someone else's opinion.

That's fine Mr. Jones. I look at this situation from two angles.

1) Pure raw emotion without having facts is counterproductive. Dialog shows a sense of maturity that I wish to foster here. I think that lessons can be learned through dialog. If people care to just vent, it always comes off "knee jerk" and is not taken seriously.

2) Some may simply not know about the mindset here. I think that some may view this as being selfish in some regard, like there is a financial gain for some of us at the end of this. Or, that there is a feeling that you can apply the methods we are suggesting here to other civic pieces, which sadly will not work.

I think all should post here. One way or the other all things get addressed in a timely dispassionate manner based on the facts and the methods proposed.

"PLAY BALL!"

There are a handful of large parties getting the good end of this stick. The rest are getting the sham. There is a lot of power and investment behind this movement because someone has something big to gain. The 'gain' is going to come out of our pockets. There is NO FREE LUNCH as someone else said on here.

Someone said something about tax dollars being paid and the cost will be reflected in products, services, and utilities. These entities may not raise our prices but they will not reduce the prices when it is due.

I just got my Comcast bill. The same service that was once offered at $39.95 is now available for $52.95. Humm...

Jessie, Amber and Joe ~ You (all) need to realize that this site is donated, this bulletin board is donated, the commercials donated, the production of the commercial donated....

The list goes on and on.

The only thing that I gain to get out of this is the chance to root for the home team in my home town. PERIOD.

Also, I would suggest that you sign up for the bulletin board under one username, you will gain credibility in my book. Stop posting under pseudonames, it's childish.

Scratch that. Mike Greene, you need to post under the name you signed up with and stand behind your comments.

[This message was edited by smokegecko on June 04, 2003 at 07:06 PM.]

[This message was edited by smokegecko on June 04, 2003 at 07:06 PM.]

I have $6 in taxes on my $15 phone bill, I'm going to blame the MLB2PDX movement! (sounds a little stupid, huh?)

Earth to the three-headed hydra: My AT&T @Home bill went up $6 a month a couple of years ago. Guess what, it wasn't baseball's fault....seriously.

If you're ticked about your taxes, don't blame something that has nothing to do with it. Move into the woods, live in a tent, write your manifesto and THINK for a second.

Free the Montreal 9

He's three...Three...Three Mints err..Posters in one....

A question.....

What does baseball have to do with Inflation?


Mighty Ducks of Anaheim 2003 Western Conference Champions!!

Anaheim Angels 2002 World Champions!!

Once again....I ask.....

Why do cities that are losing teams fight to keep them?

Why do other cities want them?

Why, after they go are people so wont to have them back?

Yet none of you anti-Sports folks have an answer....Hmmmmmmmmm


Mighty Ducks of Anaheim 2003 Western Conference Champions!!

Anaheim Angels 2002 World Champions!!


[This message was edited by HaloHawk94 on June 04, 2003 at 06:34 PM.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jessie:
There are a handful of large parties getting the good end of this stick. The rest are getting the sham. There is a lot of power and investment behind this movement because someone has something big to gain. The 'gain' is going to come out of our pockets. There is NO FREE LUNCH as someone else said on here.

Someone said something about tax dollars being paid and the cost will be reflected in products, services, and utilities. These entities may not raise our prices but they will not reduce the prices when it is due.

I just got my Comcast bill. The same service that was once offered at $39.95 is now available for $52.95. Humm...

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Solve your own problems, don't wait for the government to solve them for you. Get satellite if you don't like your cable company. Better yet, go back to the good old days of just your local stations. Such can be had in Portland with Comcast for $5.95/mo. or you can get the old antenna and put on your roof. Government can help and facilitate, but it rarely solves (but see e.g., law enforcement and the court system).